Main Topics

• Dmitry Kudrenko’s journey into the email world and the creation of Stripo
• Why do email service providers (ESPs) create their own email editors instead of using third-party solutions like Stripo
• The advantages of using Stripo for email design and collaboration
• The future of email design and the use of modular design
• The issue of image-only emails and the importance of accessibility in email design
• The role of AI in email marketing and the shift towards goal-driven marketing

Email marketing, email deliverability, Stripo, email editor, email design, accessibility, AI, goal-driven marketing, modular design, collaboration, internationalization, AMP for email, email service providers (ESPs), and customer data platforms (CDPs).
Questions/Answers

Q: Why do many ESPs create their own email editors instead of using third-party solutions like Stripo?
A: ESPs often have existing users who have created emails using their current editor, and migrating to a new editor can be a lengthy process. However, integrating Stripo as a plugin or module can be a better solution for ESPs to provide a better email editing experience without disrupting their existing user base.

Q: Why are so many emails still created as image-only emails when tools like Stripo make it easy to create well-designed HTML emails?
A: Image-only emails are often perceived as cheaper and easier to create, as designers can create them in tools like Canva without worrying about email rendering issues or accessibility. However, image-only emails have significant drawbacks, such as accessibility issues, poor performance on slow internet connections, and lack of interactivity.

Q: What role will AI play in email marketing?
A: AI can be applied in various areas of email marketing, such as content recommendations, dynamic content personalization, and optimizing send times. However, Dmitry believes that the true potential of AI lies in goal-driven marketing, where AI can help optimize the entire customer journey based on high-level goals and objectives defined by marketers, rather than just optimizing individual campaigns.

• Stripo’s focus on simplifying email design and creation for non-technical marketers allows them to concentrate on the message and audience rather than technical details.
• The trend towards modular email design, separating data and design, enabling easier updates, consistency, and scalability across multiple emails and languages.
• The importance of accessibility in email design, and the need for tools to enforce accessibility best practices by default, rather than relying on individual knowledge.
• The shift from campaign-driven marketing to goal-driven marketing, optimizing the entire customer journey based on high-level objectives, with AI playing a crucial role in this transition.

“It’s much easier to create an image and send it. But you know how Gmail would understand something about your promotion if you just send an image and you just have to care about your your recipients.”
“For example, for Ukrainian people where Internet connection is very restricted now, yeah, I, I open the email, and I just see that there is an image here, and it’s blocked.”
“I would never suggest that people do this, but yes, it still continues to. And from an accessibility point of view, it’s always small, especially on mobile devices. Text can be scaled very easily; it can be copied and pasted. It can be answered.”

Why do many ESPs invent their own email editor instead of using a generic one like BEE or Strypo?
Many ESPs have existing users who have created emails using their current editor, so migrating to a new editor would be a huge challenge and could take over a year. It’s easier for new ESPs to use Strypo from the start.
Why are so many still creating image-only emails when it’s easy to create well-designed emails?
Creating an image is cheaper and easier than designing an HTML email that works across all email clients. However, image-only emails have accessibility issues and may not display properly with limited internet connections.
What is Dmitry’s outlook on the future of email design and email marketing?
Email design will move from full templates to modular, reusable content blocks. Tools will simplify accessibility and optimize emails without deep technical knowledge. Email marketing will shift from campaign-driven to goal-driven, using AI to optimize the entire customer journey.
What role will AI play in email and email marketing?
AI can provide recommendations for dynamic content, best send times for triggers, and optimize the overall customer journey. Instead of optimizing individual campaigns, AI should optimize for the marketer’s high-level goals and communicate the right message at the right time.

Dmitry Kudrenko, the founder and CEO of Strypo, an email design platform, was interviewed about his journey into the email world, the advantages of using Strypo, and his outlook on the future of email design and marketing.
Strypo started as a module within Dmitry’s email service provider but became a separate product focused solely on email creation due to its growing popularity. With over 800,000 users worldwide, Strypo aims to simplify the email design process for non-technical marketers.
One key advantage of Strypo is its ability to create accessible emails optimized for different devices and email clients. Dmitry emphasized the importance of accessibility but acknowledged that most marketers don’t prioritize it due to a lack of education and proof of its impact on performance.
Regarding the future of email design, Dmitry predicted a shift from full templates to modular, reusable content blocks. This model-based design approach separates data, design, and logic, allowing for easier updates and consistency across communications. Tools like Strypo should simplify the creation of accessible emails without requiring deep technical knowledge.
In email marketing, Dmitry envisioned a move from campaign-driven to goal-driven strategies, optimizing the entire customer journey using AI. Instead of manually segmenting and setting up campaigns, AI should determine the right message, channel, and frequency based on the marketer’s high-level objectives and customer data.
Dmitry also discussed the challenges of creating multilingual emails and Strypo’s integration with translation services to automate the process. He emphasized the importance of understanding local nuances and optimizing the translation workflow, especially for companies without native speakers.

Introduction:
Welcome to Episode 11 of EmailGeeks.Show, the podcast where email enthusiasts and professionals from around the globe share insights into email marketing, deliverability, and strategies. Hosted by Sella Yoffe, an email deliverability consultant, this episode features a conversation with Dmitry Kudrenko, founder and CEO of Stripo, an innovative email design platform.

Key Discussion Points:

• Email Design Challenges and Solutions (00:01:30):
  Dmitry highlights the ongoing challenges in email design, particularly for accessibility and the constraints faced by Ukrainian users due to internet restrictions. He emphasizes the importance of text-based emails over image-only emails for better deliverability and user experience.
• Introduction to Stripo (00:04:00):
  Dmitry introduces Stripo, a SaaS platform designed to simplify email creation with beautiful designs, requiring no technical skills. Stripo offers integration with major email systems like Gmail, Outlook, and MailChimp.
• Journey into Email Marketing (00:06:00):
  Dmitry shares his personal journey from a mathematical background to becoming an entrepreneur in the email marketing industry, highlighting the transition from programming to understanding marketing needs.
• The Rise of Stripo (00:10:00):
  Dmitry discusses the evolution of Stripo from a module within their marketing automation system to a standalone product, focusing solely on email creation and design.
• Email Editor Integration (00:18:00):
  Stripo’s capability to integrate with over 1,000 systems is discussed, emphasizing the ease of migration and consistency for users switching platforms.
• Future of Email Design (00:30:00):
  Dmitry talks about the shift from email templates to module-based design, enabling marketers to focus on content rather than technical aspects.
• AMP for Email (00:35:00):
  Dmitry explains the benefits of AMP for email, providing dynamic content and real-time updates within emails, enhancing user interaction.
• International Email Design (00:50:00):
  The challenges and solutions for creating multi-language emails are explored, including integrations with translation services.
• AI in Email Marketing (01:05:00):
  Dmitry shares insights on how AI can transform email marketing by optimizing customer journeys and enhancing personalization.

Notable Quotes:

• “Email marketing is not about one-time campaigns; it’s about lifetime relationships.” (01:10:00)
• “AI must be in the core of your system working with the customer. It’s why ESP became CDP.” (01:13:00)
• “We need to care about the customer, not about emails.” (01:14:00)

Stripo’s website

Transcript

Participants: Dmitry Kudrenko, Sella Yoffe

Dmitry Kudrenko 00:06
It’s much easier to create image and send it. But you know how Gmail would understand something about your promotion if you just send an image and just you have to care about your your recipients. For example, for Ukrainian people where Internet connection is very restricted now, yeah, I, I open email and I just see that there is an image here and it’s blocked. I would never suggest people to do this, but yes, it still continue to. And from accessibility point of view, it’s always small, especially on mobile devices. Text can be scaled very easy it can be copied and paste. It can be answered.

Sella Yoffe 00:47
Hello and welcome to episode number 11 of emailgeeks.show. The podcast where almost once a month, email geeks and lovers from around the world share their expertise in email marketing email deliverability and email marketing strategies. My name is Sella Yoffe, and I’m an email deliverability consultant. I work with global email senders start UPS email agencies and some Esps around their email deliverability needs and email strategy. My guest today is Dmitry Kudrenko, the founder and the CEO of the email editor. Stripo.Hi Dmitry. It’s great to have you on the show.

Dmitry Kudrenko 01:31
Hi, thank you for having me.

Sella Yoffe 01:33
You know I’m a fan of Strypo as I personally use it. Can you please share a bit about yourself and your journey into the email? World and of course, please tell us more about Striper.

Dmitry Kudrenko 01:48
Striper easy mail design platform. It’s just SAS is a tool that allows to create great design perfect email very easily without any technical skills and then expert to any system you use for sending. It could be Gmail or Outlook or MailChimp or Active Contact or whenever it can be hundreds of integration. So very, very simple task just creating beautiful emails. That’s all. And it’s where we do where we work in museum mail but it was a long journey and it started from I’m, I’m asymmetrical, right? I, I, I all did in my life i thought that the code to this world, Michael, was to write a code to be a programmer. So I did my degree, post grading education, and then together with my classmates, with my partners who created a company that did outsource development. So about 10 years we did. We were focused on creating science, so creating a product and we decided one day that we know so many things about product development that we can do our products. It was, I don’t know, a kind of mistake. We were young and very optimistic and 1st 2 attempts was not very successful because if we try to do it when, when we have time, we can create a product because if it’s easy, but it was not easy. And one day I decided, OK, there is no in Ukraine there is no in Ukraine really marketing automation system there are only system for sending spams. And I, I, I tried to contact the owners of the companies that you, you don’t understand whole world thinking about marketing automation, not spam. They saw that they don’t understand this and they returned back to my partner says, OK, I I just can’t find the system. Ok, if you’re so clever, just let’s do this. It’s how we created our first email service provider. It was a system when we wrote it, we were, we were very proud of the result, but nobody wanted to use us because of market wasn’t ready for, I know clever things for marketing automation. And we had a three option just again, just leave it as is and start something different to don’t back the service or change the audience, change the market or change the product. And we thought, OK, we are very ambitious we have to change people. The the most challengeable thing and it’s how I started to speak in conferences, just doing a lot of seminars, speaking with people and people around the world know me as a marketer. But really I am programmer who became entrepreneur in marketing area so I have to communicate with the marketers and for more than 20 years working in this area, I think I start to understand marketers, which is very unusual thing for developers and marketers never understand developers. So because of feed, I have something golden in the middle and it’s where I’m working now. So we created the product, we started to educate people and then now we number one system in ukraine. But we always wanted to be global and it’s really hard to sell enterprise globally. It’s really we, we have a very mature system, but hard to be global. And we thought, OK, there is in a book there is an option like a software as a marketing, just create something great, simple just for the generation. And we said, OK in our system which became not only E speeds, Omni channel market automation, it’s email with push mobile, push text messages, a lot of channels. We just have an editor inside our system and we wanted to rebuild it i said, OK, let’s do it. Let’s do it in the way like it’s like separate product. We, we, we need to rebuild, but who would like our rebuilding because of everybody would be unsatisfied because of they already have something and we never can do in one day better than something we did tell you know five years and we decided to create side product for the generation and our ideas was like, OK, who will use it? Only people who is not satisfied with the editor in their systems they use for sending. So it’s a great audience they already have. If we have a trust, we can switch them back into our system, into our market information platform. And very soon when we did the release, we understood that we have completely different audience because of it was it’s a funny joke. Edit integration with Gmail just because of Gmail is a big name. Just we integrated with Gmail, but we created, I don’t know, drag and drop editor nobody used drag and drop for sending business emails. So it’s not for promotional. I was hundred percent % nobody would use it. We edit just for fun because of its one day work. But you know, we very soon realise that almost, I don’t know, 50 % of our registration use integration with Gmail i said, OK, it’s, it’s kind of, I don’t know, unusual, but let’s do integration with Outlook because of I don’t know if people use Gmail and I didn’t find any integration with Outlook we added integration with Outlook and we have another audience for this made it integration with always Peace. But about 40 % were for Gmail and Outlook and OK, people need people really want to create good looking emails for sales people for just regular communication, for signature generation. Just yeah, it was a surprise. And then we continued to work and we very soon realized that all editors in the world are not ideal at all so they just good enough to create something because of if any ESP created their own email, editor they have so many problems around, I don’t know around same deliverability, analytics, gathering data, segmentation, AAI predictions, a lot of things. So email editing is tiny part and nobody compete with which email editor is better. So they just try to keep it as good as possible to to just keep users continue to work with them just to keep retention in a good level. So I said, OK, if so many problems I see, I even see, you know, huge problems in the process, how people create email, the time they spent for emails. And I just want to focus only in one thing. I don’t want to do sending segmentation. And what we did, we when we realized that this huge problem we just extracted from our maximum automation system, which is the name of the Sputnik. We extracted into separate company a different office, different legal structure, different financial, different developments. Everything is just completely isolated and focus it only on the email. Creation and it it helped us a lot so now we have 800,000 thousand users around the world. It’s only because of the focusing on one thing.

Sella Yoffe 10:27
There are many email platforms that are using a generic email editor like Befree and I know that Striper is also capable of doing so as a plug in for Esps. I wonder why so many Esps are just inventing the wheel, so to speak, inventing their own email. Editor why do you think they’re doing so?

Dmitry Kudrenko 10:51
From the very first day we did it as a like a module for our ASP. So we plan the architecture to be very easily. As just ended known, 5 minutes can be embedded into any other solutions and we have more than thousand different system who integrated striper into the solution. And sometimes we speak with a big, very big names who integrated and it’s always a challenge you know, they already have thousands of users who created some emails, millions of different emails and they have to be consistent. They have to be migrated with to another way to build HTML and maybe some special kind of integration. So it’s it could be one year to transfer 1 users to one platform to another platform. So when you’re creating something new, it’s 100 % the best solution just to use the striper because if you don’t spend enough time for not key activity for your audience, you have to be focused on something different. Nobody compete with the editor. I I’m sure that everybody would be happy if all have the same editor with additional extension under the editor i don’t know, it could be for some automation for abundant cards or some triggers Recommendation. Every system have their own extension, but it’s great if users can easily migrate the emails from byte in Striper and very easily integrate into the system. So and we like this in in kind of our vision we have, we have like 4 items and one of them to be a standard. It’s how do people think about the way we’re working with emails to be the standards mean. Then when you buy a template somewhere, you expect that you will see like a guideline and the modules and all supportive documentation like we do in a stripe and that it can be very easily exported into any system you don’t need to do some special work for this. So if somebody hire people, it would be good we, we have a skill and it’s only LinkedIn or in in at work it would be great if people would say, OK, it’s my profile in the stripe. So it’s how we think people. We want people to think about us from one side and from other side we think that about us not like an editor, but like a platform. Platform means that we are not only focusing on HTML or female, but all the system around email you know people work in a Figma. We have very easily been integrated you can export email from Figma to Striper and edit there or maybe if you’re creating the in a Canva you’re creating the images it have to be very easy integrated if you do task in Asana or in if you do translation in crowding or localize all all the system have to be integration it should not be something different it hope to be should be part of America system.

Sella Yoffe 14:24
I found many other advantages to use Tripo. For example, if a group of people are working together, I don’t need to give access to my platform, included the data and automation and sometimes it’s, it’s risky, you know, I just want to give access to the editor and that’s a perfect solution for.

Dmitry Kudrenko 14:45
The thank you, thank you for the for this comment, because of for me now it sounds like a, you know, like a customer interview because of real life that people use us to share emails without special contracts, NDA permissions, because of when they give access even for restricted area in the ESP, they possible would have the access for some data and for some personalization they can break something. Hard to agree all the things here, people use it, OK, It’s just more design you, you cannot break it. You cannot have any private information use it. It was surprise for me to be honest, but when I found this, they started to work on collaboration tools when people can work with email. Simultaneously because of I found that people worked in a teams and sometimes we have a company who have 100 different users. Especially for enterprise who wants to keep like it’s a big global company, all the communication consistent, one create modules and design and other can only reuse them and change the text, but maybe checks only inside an email and we’re working to configure all kind of permission.

Sella Yoffe 16:05
Interesting you also make it very easy to work with MP for email MP.

Dmitry Kudrenko 16:11
For email, it was kind of another. It’s part of my own. I, I, I mentioned 4 things, yeah, like a standard platform and another human you’re asking is about innovation. Innovation in email because of emails are so innovative. It’s really hard to do any innovative thing because of its outlook from one side, Google from other, Apple from it’s like another side and a lot, a lot of email clients and some renders your email by Internet Explorer 6, some by Microsoft Word, some is, I don’t know, a lot of notes. You cannot be consistent and you have, you don’t know where your customers would open your email. It should look good, but it’s always, it’s because of email it’s almost the same as it was 20 years ago.

Sella Yoffe 17:10
Exactly.

Dmitry Kudrenko 17:12
But but I don’t know, people say a lot of I don’t know it’s it’s like legend when people say that email will. Die soon, every i don’t know, every five years, it’s like a new wave over email. Killer it was one time it was ICQI don’t know then it was social networks, and it was, I don’t know, Slack.

Sella Yoffe 17:35
No, it’s WhatsApp.

Dmitry Kudrenko 17:37
Whatsapp or I don’t web push so many assassins, but when I don’t know, web push became more and more push notification you have to structure them, then you have to stop them from a spamming, then you have to do something else and it became too complicated to support and it’s like turn into emails, like another email Yeah. And it’s OK. Even if female die, something different would be, but with the same, with the same ideas, ideas of communication you have to send message, right message to the right person at the right moment of time, using right frequency channel everything. And because a female is the best channel for personalization, it have to be dynamic, it have to be different. Amp is the best idea in the world i think it just gives into email dynamic thing where you can submit forms, update email in the real time. You have to do application, you can do whenever you want in your mail and it’s safe. Yeah, Google create this technology for accelerated mobile pages, for mobile pages, AMP and for email they rename it is like AMP, but it’s not mobile pages, let’s say AMP, not AMP, but AMP. So they created this technology for emails, but nobody wanted to use this because if nobody trusts Gmail, Gmail killed so many products they invented and Gmail did OK, let’s do it open source. And they did alliance with Microsoft with mail, RU with Yahoo Mail. And they, they create a working group and OK, it’s Common Core, everybody can use it just to support new and you send that in email But Apple said, OK now again. And my mission was simplifies a way to to get dynamic thing into email clients so we can be embedded into ESP. So in senders it’s much easier to support AMP, just use as a plugin or export into your system for sending simplification. We created ready to use solution for for AMP. So the server that can get the request from emails, that can prepare reports do a lot of different gamification examples and we started to speak in the conferences. Together with Google, together with working group, we did a lot because of I just feel that as in example of annotation as with AMP, with accessibility things with a lot of we just want to change experience, user experience around your mail. So it’s it’s kind of kind of mission of us. By the way, there is a consortium of email designs that was created it’s they declared the mission of them like improve email. Experience i try not to use the same wording, but it’s just create a future of email. So it’s designed it’s what we do in a stripe.

Sella Yoffe 21:09
I wonder what’s your outlook regarding email design and the future of email marketing?

Dmitry Kudrenko 21:16
I, I will split this question into two parts 1st, we’ll be starting about the email. Design so I see the future of email design and the future of email marketing creates a like a more common picture when we speak about the email, design it’s better, I don’t know first. Now creating a good email, it still requires a lot of technical stuff. I think it have to be very simplified because of marketers should think about the message. They have to think about audience, not about technical thing. And one of the way to do this especially with AMP is a model based design so when you work not with email template but these modules and in the module, the module could be, I don’t know either or the blog post announcement or event announcement or product card. So it’s some like content item. When we speak about the model as a content item, it means that we can separate the data and design and logic. It means that if you have a data, you can automatically get it and put into some design you know that here is an image, it is a text, it’s a description, it’s a button, It have to be aligned in this way it have to be, I don’t know, 3 lines of text have to be not more. So you can control all the things. But when you separate data and when you separate design, you can very easily update design with the same data, update data and keep design and you can control the consistency of all your communication from one side and from another side. It’s much easier to update bulk of email if you have triggers, I don’t know 40 triggers in your business because it means updating at least 40 emails if in one language, if in different language, it could be much more one email could, be i don’t, know. One minute, yeah it’s, but it’s always more than one minute you have to open, update, save, test, check that it’s in all your it’s for one email and then for another, another, another. So you can spend day on it. But with the modules you can update just design in one place and say OK, scale it in all my emails it could be the like this modules can be used. So this idea is scale it in a lot of areas for supporting multi language of things, for doing for doing a lot of things so it’s for simplification and for AMP, it’s creating one Gimme 5 emails. I don’t know it’s it could it could cause, you know, one week of work to create a code yeah. But when you created a module which you can just configure with your mechanics, with your data, it can be reused in, you know, in 5 minutes. And it’s kind of the idea of this when I understood you, you know, that SpaceX Falcon 9A rocket, Yeah. So it’s private company did more launches than any any country. Why because of the OK if you have to have a lot of money, but if it would reuse modules, so we can start and reuse again, refuel and reuse and reuse and reuse more launches cheaper the start. So the same for us if we have a modules, some interactive thing which a module and can be reusable without technical knowledge you don’t need to know how this model works, it just works just reuse it. So I think in email design we will go from email templates into modules you don’t need to buy template, you need to buy module. And all things have to be simplified for non-technical marketers. Think about marketing, not about adaptations or I don’t know.

Sella Yoffe 25:53
I wonder if it’s so easy to create well designed email, why so many are still creating emails you know that are image only emails?

Dmitry Kudrenko 26:07
It’s easy, easy, easy, easy answer it’s cheaper because of they can ask the designer and they can create in a canvas very easy. You don’t have to think about the fonts, about safe fonts in your mail you don’t need how this I don’t know, it’s proverb like Outlook is not so good yeah, you don’t have to think about all versions of Outlook and check all the stuff you should to know huge things about calling email. It’s much easier to create image and send it. But you know how how Jamail would understand something about your promotion if you just send an image and just you have to care about your your recipients. For example, for Ukrainian people, well, Internet connection is very restricted now. Yeah, I, I open email and I just see that there is an image here and it’s blocked empty because of empty.

Sella Yoffe 27:03
Looks like empty email yes.

Dmitry Kudrenko 27:06
Or so I don’t know. It’s it’s worse. I would never suggest people to do this but but yes it still continue to and from accessibility point of view it’s all especially on mobile devices, text can be scaled very easy, it can be copied and paste, it can be answered, it can be so.

Sella Yoffe 27:31
I’m a Stripe A user and one of my use cases is building accessible emails.

Dmitry Kudrenko 27:38
You are, I don’t know it’s it’s kind of magic you’re asking me as the most important questions about MO design. Nobody think about accessibility because there is no proof that accessibility improve your performance. You never think how many how many people with dyslexia or titanes open your email. You just don’t know and you can compare you cannot do AB testing for them. You don’t need people don’t know that centralizing text. Some people just cannot read this. If you don’t use the I don’t know right right size of the font, right contrast of the colours in your email.

Sella Yoffe 28:26
In many countries there are regulations around creating accessible websites. I wonder if that’s the solution to create a regulation around accessible emails.

Dmitry Kudrenko 28:39
I, I, it would be great, but I’m programmatic. I’m in the industry for, I don’t know, 20 years and I see that everybody speaks about, especially in the niche conference about accessibility. All the years nothing has changed really because of new marketers don’t think about accessibility, they just don’t know, they’re not educated there is and no like course in university about chemo marketing and accessibility people just think about way to send message. So we cannot educate everybody in the school. The tools should help here. So you don’t need to know a lot about accessibility, but the tool should allow create only accessible email that, should say OK, don’t use this colours. It should say it’s a safe fonts or you can use your font. But because I don’t know where they set a font in the Google create your own font, but it’s how to use it safe. We can say that aligning by centre, it’s maybe not very good idea for some people. We can say that it’s we don’t need to say it we don’t need to give an advice. We just need to create templates. And by default it should be because of people use the default settings a lot. So if to create great default designs, so experience of users would be of recipients would be much better. So I think the way I can change the world here just to create a tool for creating the perfect email without deep knowledge of all the stuff like accessibility.

Sella Yoffe 30:34
I find it very helpful to create templates with Striper and use those templates with the different email providers.

Dmitry Kudrenko 30:43
Yeah, you’re right. And again, our first idea was we thought that our early adopters in Stripe will be agencies. Why agencies because of they support say customers in different TSPS. And for this, you should educate your employees how to create design email chimp than in active contact, in active campaign in I don’t know in any in Sputnik. And it’s different. Every system has a different restrictions and you cannot reuse the thing you created before. So we thought, OK, it’s have to be different. You should create email you should create email and stripe on the expert for any system much easier. And you can reuse your work and you can give an access like you said. And we soon realized that a lot of companies who is not agencies use the same way. Ok, why you not keep your emails in your ESP? Because of because of when I decide to migrate, it’s almost impossible. Or if I don’t know something happened to this, I just want to reuse i want to keep all things together and another thing which was very interesting for me because of you have an option to to group your email, to structure my emails because of usually ESP have just list of emails and it’s hard to structure them some have a text, but here you have a text, you have a folders, you you can, you can group them in different way. Yeah, yeah thank you. Thank you again. Your experience is very unusual people very rare and notice things like this. So yes.

Sella Yoffe 32:37
I’ve seen clients that are using Stripe or to create international emails, so they have one template and they so-called duplicate the template for different languages, different regions.

Dmitry Kudrenko 32:55
Oh, it’s my, it’s. It’s a kind of thing together with modules. I was realised that it’s huge problem every 4040 % of European companies sending emails in more than one language in a stripal. We support 7 languages and creating one email became is a is a disaster you have to create email but and then translate to the languages you don’t understand and how you have to organize this process. And it’s not just translating email or images, it’s also how to understand the local of your customers you have to understand how to segment this, you have to understand how to unsubscribe people and do all the things. So we decided to automate this process we did hundreds of customer interviews and in different companies how they organize the process of multi language translation and one of the first company we spoke was at booking.com and they they never see the email they sent they have a code inside the email the email looks like a conditional statements like for each loops and all the things they see a code and the code would be before you email is built in different layers, some recommendations, language, all the stuff you never see the result. So it’s it’s really hard how they support this. It’s hard to scale. So we’re trying to find the different ways to automate this process, especially if you don’t have a native speakers in your company. So we integrated with a system like we integrated first with a Google Doc. You can easily export in the Excel, not Excel in Google Sheets. The document you can use for translation, you give it to translator and export and auto generating on different languages. We integrate it with a Google Translate. We’re doing integration with crowding service where real people translate your emails very cheap and very fast and you, you can prove it. So we do all the things and translation yes, it’s very unique. People never, never trying to find the system who supports the translation. But when they realize it, they use us forever. Very appreciate this.

Sella Yoffe 35:40
What do you think AI will do to email and email marketing?

Dmitry Kudrenko 35:46
Ai in email can be applied in in different directions. The most of those 1 is a recommendation, so it’s when you have to. So we have a product card or it’s articles for you to to read it’s abundant cards and the recommendation for them or the prices change it or out of stocks or the thing can be read this personally dynamic content using and I think it was a lot of noise about the best timing best timing. It’s when you do promotional for promotional amount best timing it means I did so many so many investigations here. I don’t think that it’s like very, very effective. It just marketing stuff. What means? So you say it’s my message. Send it during the I don’t know one day, but based on customer experience, send in the moment when he communicates with his email so you would be in the top position to open email yeah so optimizing email increase the.

Sella Yoffe 36:59
Open rate.

Dmitry Kudrenko 37:00
Conversion rate, yeah, it is it converts, but it’s very hard to get the knowledge about your audience, actual knowledge. It’s only can be effective when you use knowledge about your customer from third parties because of you know how many emails you send, if you send 4 miles per day in different time in different day of the week and understand the condition of every personal behavior which changes. I don’t know he’s in vocation, he changes the work or he have, I don’t know, started to date with a girl and change his schedule. I don’t know a lot of thinking be changed and it’s really hard to understand especially when you have only one day window predictions the best time is much better when they speak about the triggers. When is the best time for sending regulation email or sending just some onboarding emails? When’s the best time to module or or maybe propose help? So here is I is very good. There are so many other thing when you can use AI from my understanding, AI have to be in much high level. And if we speak again about the future of email, marketing i would I use it in my in in like for myself, like a gold driven marketing. We should go from now most marketers use like campaign driven marketing, say optimizing campaigns like a welcome series campaign, reactivation campaign, our bonded cards campaign and campaigns. But be not about one time campaign it’s about relationship lifetime, yes, relationship. So you have to think strategically and it’s very, very easy to answer how many, how many emails I have to send to have more, way more, more money. More often you send more money you have it’s very simple it’s always works, but for short period of time you will have money but you will lose your customers. Do you need money or you need a customer that staying with you even without any communication, trust you it’s about your relationship like you said, totally with you. So if we would speak about the metrics who measure things and it’s open rate like a Creek rate or really nuclear campaign is maybe a lifetime value, but it’s very negative. I tried to find the best the best metrics that shows the real health of a customers and how to automate them. And it sounds like a major can’t I say, OK, can we do the same in marketing if you only say the final destination, I don’t know we want more money or something. And it it works, it works and send messages and you have more money is it possible when marketer would only answer the questions, where is my point what is the tone of voice i don’t know what you want to communicate what is your value, what you can bring to a customer? It’s possible. And so, OK, it sounds like not, but if you would have asked me 10 years ago when I was in the Google about the anonymous driving car, I saw this car Google wanted, you know, it was all radar, all the things. And I didn’t feel that it would work. But in five years, I, I, I read the Tesla do this and I already tried it and it works in my life. So what it means, it means that it’s possible, but there are several stages of a delegation. So first think you have to define the rule, define the goal in Tesla way it’s like a like a Google map. You can set the destination point. What we say in the marketing, we should show their objectives. So I would like to find this map and I started to discover where it could be. And what I found that all we do is optimizing campaigns and we need to optimize a customer journey. When we’re optimizing the customer journey, we see that there is a several like a stages like onboarding, conversion, engagement, activation, retention and all the things. First thing we should set the trust, use the data and it’s where AI have to be applied first, not about the boarding. So sorry I did so long speech about the AI, but the idea was that we need to change system now follow the instruction, we do campaigns, we do all the flow, we set the instruction and the marketing automation or CDP just use instruction. But it have to be different. You have to define OK, you don’t need to segment, you don’t need to set the complaints you need to send the messages for people, OK, For people I I have the, this message for them, this message, for other people, the message, the three kind of different messages. You should have one message in different channels and the system should decide which message you want to deliver, which channel with which frequency, how often you have to show this message. Especially if you didn’t even open my previous email marketers usually say OK I already sent it, it means he knows he doesn’t. It just you send. Even if I open it doesn’t mean that I got it. Exactly. So AI must be. It’s vitally important for the future of email, but not in the high level it should be in the core of your system, working with a customer. It’s why ESP became CDP email service provider, became customer data platform. We need to care about customer, not about emails.

Sella Yoffe 43:27
Amazing, Dimitri, thank you very much. So how can people follow you?

Dmitry Kudrenko 43:32
I do my announcement in LinkedIn and Twitter perfect so please follow me. I would be happy especially if you ask questions. I like questions and thank you for questions you asked me today. You asked the great question about the striper it was to be on a surprise for me that you understand them so deep. And the questions about AI, it’s, I don’t know, because of AI, it’s kind of people speak about it like it will solve all the problems they have, but it will not find the problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it’s a it’s a great thing, yeah.

Sella Yoffe 44:17
Amazing. So I want to thank you very much. Thank you for spending the time in the darkness to talk to my audience.

Dmitry Kudrenko 44:27
Yeah, it’s pleasure and thank you.

Sella Yoffe 44:28
Very much I wish that our next conversation will be, you know, when the war is over we can. The war is already over.

Dmitry Kudrenko 44:42
Thank you very much i would only add that I would like that this new conversation will be really soon. Let’s do it. I don’t know this drink when the war is over. Thank you for your wishes. It’s important thank you for your support and thank you for your questions.

Sella Yoffe 45:00
Thank you very much, Dimitri.